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Voice chat record #0144798
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2004, Dec. 23
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Operator: Laura P.
Caller: “Deborah”
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Start of transcript...
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Laura: Hello there.

Deborah: Um... hi...

Laura: Hi! How are you?

Deborah: Pretty good. Nervous.

Laura: It’s okay. Nervous about calling?

Deborah: Yeah... I never called before.

Laura: I see. Tell you what, eight kids out of ten have never called before.

Deborah: Oh... well, mine isn’t really a problem... other kids need it more than me maybe.

Laura: Maybe. But lines aren’t busy this afternoon. How old are you?

Deborah: Almost twelve, but...

Laura: Sounds good. And what’s your n-...

Deborah: I shouldn’t have called...

Laura: Oh no, why do you say that?

Deborah: Because... well... this is for kids who suffered from abuse, and I’m not one.

Laura: Well, that’s good news! Since you called, though, better make the best of it.

[pause]

Deborah: I... I s’pose.

Laura: Good. Where you from?

Deborah: Not telling!

Laura: Oookay. So what’s your name? You can make up one.

Deborah: Um, Deborah.

Laura: Okay, Deborah. I’m Laura.

Deborah: Ooh my mum’s name.

Laura: Oops! Then it’s not so good, is it.

Deborah: Nah... it’s a common name. And... it’s about my mother I want to talk about anyway.

Laura: Sure. Is there a problem with her?

[pause]

Deborah: I think it’s more like a problem with me, if that makes sense.

Laura: It does, but I think problems are more with parents than kids.

Deborah: Okay... Well, I was thinkin’, what do you guys say about spanking?

Laura: Good question. Everyone has their ideas about it. We here don’t like it though.

Deborah: My mom says it’s a law that kids can’t be spanked.

Laura: That’s right.

[pause]

Deborah: So it’s true??

Laura: Well, there’s a law that limits it. Does your mother spank you, Deborah?

Deborah: N-no...

Laura: Okay.

[pause]

Deborah: I... well, she doesn’t, really...

Laura: I believe you, honey.

Deborah: B-but... don’t think I’m weird okay?...

Laura: Sure.

Deborah: Okay... Well then... she says spanking is wrong, but... I kinda, sorta, more or less want her to spank me, in a way... stupid huh.

[pause]

Laura: Did you tell her that?

Deborah: Noo-oooo!

Laura: Just making sure.

Deborah: S-sorry ma’am.

Laura: Just call me Laura, honey. Why do you want your mother to spank you?

Deborah: I don’t know.

Laura: Oh, okay. But you must have a little clue? Even a tiny one?

[pause]

Deborah: Because... well... I know a friend of mine is spanked, and she’s got this beautiful thing with her parents that... Mom and I aren’t that close.

Laura: I understand. Maybe your friend and her parents would be close anyway.

Deborah: Maybe. But I think spankings do that.

Laura: What’s your friend’s name?

Deborah: I can’t tell.

Laura: Okay. Is she twelve too?

Deborah: Yes.

Laura: And, she told you she gets spanked.

Deborah: Yes. I heard her getting one actually.

Laura: Oh, I’m sorry.

Deborah: Yeah. And I could tell she’d been crying.

Laura: That can happen. Did that make you feel bad?

Deborah: Yes ma’am... Laura... but also, it was... weird. I saw her and her mother the rest of the afternoon and they were so cool with each other.

Laura: Like how?

Deborah: Like, they hugged and kissed and stuff.

Laura: Sounds like they got along then.

Deborah: Yes!

Laura: Don’t you and your mother get along like that?

Deborah: No!... I mean... yeah we do, but... not like that.

Laura: Oh I understand. So basically you want to be spanked because it will get you closer to her.

Deborah: Yes.

Laura: Like, every night at bedtime?

[pause]

Deborah: No... I d-didn’t mean that.

Laura: Oh sorry, then. What did you mean?

Deborah: I mean that when I do wrong things... maybe...

Laura: I see. Was that why your friend was being spanked?

Deborah: Yes. She lied to her mom and was caught.

Laura: Hm-hmm.

Deborah: I never say lies. And it seemed kinda good that she would be punished for doing something wrong. And her mom wasn’t angry, just... dunno, kinda sad. But then they were very close. She was forgiven and everything.

Laura: Makes sense. Your mother wouldn’t have spanked you for lying.

Deborah: Nope.

Laura: Punished though?

Deborah: Yeah... grounding and loss of allowance and... but not spankings. I know she wouldn’t.

Laura: How so?

Deborah: Well, I lied and was caught before, and she didn’t.

Laura: Oh but I mean, why do you think she wouldn’t?

Deborah: Oh... well...

[pause]

Deborah: I don’t really know, actually. I never asked.

Laura: Hmm. Okay, I’m going to ask a strange question, can I?

Deborah: Y-yeah of course.

Laura: Cool. Use your imagination for a moment.

Deborah: Okay... hey I’m not a kid. I know how to answer grownup questions.

[gentle laugh]

Laura: Oh you sound like my daughter now. Anyway, yes it’s a grownup question. Imagine your mother talking to me now...

Deborah: Huh-huh...

Laura:... and I’m asking her what she would do if you asked her to spank you...

Deborah: Hmm...

Laura:... what do you think she would say?

[longer pause]

Laura: Take your time.

Deborah: Hmm... well...

[pause]

Deborah: I think she’d be like “no way!” maybe.

Laura: So she wouldn’t believe me.

Deborah: Well maybe she would but... oh I don’t know... she would be surprised?

Laura: Yeah that’s what I think too. Would she also ask me why you want to be spanked?

Deborah: Yes... sorry I didn’t say that.

Laura: It’s not a quiz, honey. I do think she’d ask why, and also, I think she would want to hang up with me and want to talk to you instead.

Deborah: Mad?

Laura: I don’t know. Does she get mad?

Deborah: Nah. Just annoyed.

Laura: Then I think she would understand.

Deborah: But, if she agreed, why didn’t she just spank me in the past?

Laura: I didn’t say she’d agree, I said she would understand.

Deborah: Yeah... so if she disagrees with spanking, she never will. Right? She would have done it already if she did.

Laura: Not necessarily. People can change their behaviour when things around them change.

Deborah: Like, how?

Laura: For example...um... do you have pets?

Deborah: Yes, I have a cat.

Laura: Aww cute, me too. Imagine a friend of yours is allergic to cat hair...

Deborah: Okay.

Laura: She doesn’t come to your place.

Deborah: Well... she still could, but I’d lock the cat away.

Laura: Perfect. Now imagine your friend healed, like, suddenly.

Deborah: Huh-huh... ohhhhhh... I know what you mean. I could take the cat back when she’s over.

Laura: Exactly.

Deborah: Do... do you think that’s why Mom doesn’t spank me?

Laura: I don’t know, honey, but maybe she just never considered the thing. Maybe she thought that you’d grow up better without spanking, period. I’m sure she never imagined you could actually want it.

[pause]

Deborah: I... understand... sorta.

Laura: It’s okay. It’s complicated, I know.

Deborah: Yeah!

Laura: Now can you explain one thing?

Deborah: Of course.

Laura: Cool. Aren’t you afraid it might hurt?

Deborah: I know. My friend says it hurts her bottom for a few hours, but that it’s no big deal.

Laura: Yes, exactly. How did you feel about that?

Deborah: It was weird, because, if her mother loves her so much, why does she hurt her? But then I realised it’s not hurt HURT, you know, it’s more like... uh... more like the fire.

Laura: The fire?

Deborah: Yes, like, you don’t put your finger on the fire, because you know it burns.

Laura: True.

Deborah: Her mom showed what would happen if she lied, and now my friend won’t do it again.

Laura: True. But, there’s other ways to make someone understand what to do and what not to do.

Deborah: Duh, I know. My mother scolds me and grounds me and stuff...

Laura: See, that’s a way...

Deborah:... but it’s not the same thing. I mean... we don’t argue, but I feel things aren’t over with... and there’s so much stuff I did she didn’t spank me for and I think my friend would be spanked for it.

Laura: I understand. But you are you, not your friend.

Deborah: Huh?

Laura: You’re not her. You have your life, and it doesn’t *necessarily* have to be like your friend’s.

[pause]

Deborah: I... I guess.

Laura: So I don’t think that the reasons you told me are the exact reasons, are they?

[pause]

Deborah: I... well, I didn’t lie.

Laura: Oh honey, I know you’re not a liar. But there’s something more, I think.

[pause]

Deborah: I want to feel closer to my mum... like my friend and her mother are...

Laura: ... and?

Deborah: ... and...

[pause]

Laura: No one will know, trust me. This call is confidential.

[pause]

Deborah: Well, I... you ever happened to feel bad about something you did?

Laura: Yes, of course.

Deborah: Okay... I do too, and... dunno, maybe that would help.

Laura: That what?

Deborah: A sp-spanking...

Laura: To make you feel better.

Deborah: Yes.

Laura: Do you think you could feel better even if your bottom hurts?

Deborah: I don’t knowwwww! But maybe so... my friend does... heck, I’d like to even just try.

Laura: I understand. This isn’t something you just try, though. It changes things.

Deborah: How do you mean?

Laura: That if your mother raises hands on you, your relationship will be changed.

Deborah: For better or worse?

Laura: There’s no way to tell, Deborah. And even if it’s for the best... well... it will create authority.

Deborah: Authority?

Laura: Do you know what the word means?

Deborah: Duh!

Laura: Hehe, okay. I mean, if your mother spanks you, she will be in charge.

Deborah: She already is.

Laura: But she will be more. It can be something threatening, you know? To feel that if you make mistakes, you will be hit.

[pause]

Deborah: And... and what if it’s what I want?

Laura: To be hit?

Deborah: To be able to make mistakes and not feel bad about it.

Laura: Honey, there is no way around that.

Deborah: But a spanking is easier.

Laura: Easier than what?

Deborah: Well... than kicking myself over things.

Laura: Hmm. So, if I’m getting things straight, you want it because it relieves you of guilt, and because you want to feel closer to your mother because you saw your friend and her mom are. Right?

Deborah: I guess... It’s confusing.

Laura: Yeah. But, do you really need to be spanked to learn a lesson?

Deborah: Huh?

Laura: You did the example with the fire. But, I can tell you that even though I’ve never been shot by a gun, I’m pretty sure I don’t want that to happen.

[pause]

Deborah: Well, it’s not your choice even if it happens.

Laura: True. Then let’s say that even though I never killed anyone, I know I shouldn’t do it.

Deborah: W-what’s your point?

Laura: Simply that not always you need punishment in order to learn something.

Deborah: Huh-huh...

Laura: Sometimes you just know what to do and not do.

Deborah: Well, if so, why did I do wrong things in the past at all?

Laura: Because nobody’s perfect, Deborah. Being good doesn’t mean to never do wrong things, but to accept failure and learn not go there again.

Deborah: Right...

Laura: For example, what’s one of those wrong things you did?

Deborah: Um... like... cutting school... once or twice... [cough]

Laura: There. Does it make you feel bad that you did?

Deborah: Yes.

Laura: Will you do that again?

Deborah: N-no, but... I might... I mean, now I think I’ll never do it again, but in the future, maybe...

Laura: Exactly. So you think a spanking will make you *never* want to do it again?

Deborah: Well... if my bottom hurts, I know I’ll never do it again because I want to avoid that.

Laura: But the sting only lasts a few hours. When that’s gone... then what?

Deborah: I... I suppose I’ll remember. The overall thing, if not the sting.

[pause]

Laura: Yes, you’re right. But in the long shot, you might want to cut school again anyway.

Deborah: Why do you say that?

Laura: Well, doesn’t your friend say that spankings are ‘no big deal’?

Deborah: Y-yes...

Laura: If they’re not, then I suppose they’re quickly forgotten.

[pause]

Laura: They keep you good for a while, and then you’re ready to do wrong things all over again.

Deborah: ... well, maybe...

Laura: So you see how it doesn’t really change much if you get spanked or not. And since it doesn’t change much, it’s better not to bring a violent thing into your life.

[pause]

Deborah: I knew I was wrong.

Laura: I don’t know about right or wrong. See, Deborah, that’s the whole point. There isn’t a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do. Some things are better, and some are worse.

[sigh]

Laura: Whether your mother spanks or she scolds, in the end it’s going to be YOU to make the best of the lesson learnt and decide if it’s enough to keep you from misbehaving again... or not. So, the way I see it... since it’s up to you anyway, better not suffer from the pain and everything, and not have an even clearer chain of command in the family. Right?

[pause]

Deborah: I... I guess...

Laura: Good. So, Deb...

Deborah: But...

Laura: Yes? Go ahead.

Deborah: If... if what you say is right, then it’s also true the other way round...

Laura: How do you mean?

Deborah: That... uh... if Mom spanks me, it’ll still be up to me what to make of the spanking... it’ll hurt, okay, but... it’ll make us so much closer, and it’s what I want... part of anyway... right?

[pause]

Laura: Well... yes, I suppose that’s one way to look at it.

Deborah: Then, then... err... then do you think I could ask her?

Laura: Deborah, yes, you can ask her. But you should be ready to face the consequences.

Deborah: If you mean that she spanks me, well...

Laura: No, I mean that she might have to spank you more than once. Have you considered that?

Deborah: Yes, of course.

Laura: And that next times, you won’t have a say. You’d have to submit, period.

Deborah: ... y-yeah...

Laura: How can you be sure that after the first time, you’ll feel like going through that all again?

Deborah: I... I’m not sure. But I can bear pain.

Laura: It’s not a test of endurance, sweetie. It’s about learning lessons and strengthening your relationship with your mother. And it’s not just the pain, you know.

Deborah: Yeah... my friend says she’s been spanked on the... b-bare, once... but I’m not afraid.

Laura: Exactly. Are you shy?

Deborah: No. Not with Mom anyway. She’s seen me bare.

Laura: Okay then. I guess she’s seen you bare as a little kid...

Deborah: No, even this year, in the pool locker rooms.

Laura: But there’s a difference. Here, you’d take your pants down to be smacked. More precisely, you’d take your pants and panties down to have your bare bum smacked by your mother. Is that it?

[pause]

Deborah: Y-yeah... God, it sounds sooooo weird said like that!

Laura: Heh, I know. Don’t be ashamed to want that though. I’m just saying it may not be the wisest thing in the world, especially by your parents. Some things are better not mixed up.

Deborah: So you suggest that I don’t ask Mum, huh?

Laura: No, honey. I suggest that you *talk* to your mom about that... but don’t full-out ask: “Mum, will you spank me?” Tell her what you told me.

[pause]

Deborah: O-okay... I, well, thank you so much. For listening, and... everything.

Laura: It’s what I’m here for.

Deborah: Yeah, but thanks.

Laura: You’re welcome. So, you’ll talk to your mother?

Deborah: Yes, Laura.

Laura: When is she back home?

Deborah: Um... a couple of hours. She has to pick up Max, my little brother.

[pause]

Laura: Max?...

Deborah: Yeah. Like the name?

[longer pause]

Mom: ... Anna, is that you?

[even longer pause]

Anna: ... MOM?!?!?

– The End –